Drag & Spirituality + tranSpirit with Polly Amber Ross & Peter Pansexual

Polly Amber Ross (she/they) is an undead housewife living her best afterlife dissecting the patriarchy one slaughter at a time, and Peter Pansexual (he/they) is a zombie manchild working to unlearn toxic masculinity while falling apart at the seams. Both are alter egos of Trans Nonbinary Queer performance artist Chris Steele (they/them) that have been haunting queer spaces with politically subversive, thematically irreverent, and physically explosive explorations of drag-as-theater.

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Hosted by B0NNi33 Vi0L3T, a conversation about drag, being trans and spirituality.

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🌐 a queer chaplain
Bonnie Violet, is a trans femme genderqueer spiritual drag artist & a digital queer chaplain.

Splintered Grace

Bonnie Violet & Tina Frank

Tina, is a conservative christian woman and Bonnie Violet, a trans gender queer drag queen. While many family members are choosing to no longer speak, we have chosen to sit at the table and engage in difficult conversation to find peace and restoration.

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🌐 a queer chaplain
Bonnie Violet, is a trans femme genderqueer spiritual drag artist & a digital queer chaplain.

🌐 a queer chaplain
Bonnie Violet, is a trans femme genderqueer spiritual drag artist & a digital queer chaplain.

🎙 Drag & Spirituality
45 Drag Artists talk about their drag & spirituality hosted by Bonnie Violet

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Transcript

0:05
I have always been a person who exists
0:10
most comfortably sort of in an androgynous non-binary space
0:16
um and that's something that I think from a very young age it should have been very obvious to anybody around me
0:22
I've always been like a Storyteller and a performer and an artist um when I was really little I would
0:27
always like craft performances for my entire family to watch
0:32
um at hostage point because you can't not watch the children but the entire Wizard of Oz memorized
0:39
when I was six and would perform it as a one-person show oh wow watch out Judy
0:44
Garland and so I think that that's sort of like
0:49
as I've come to terms more and more with my trans identity I've uncovered like
0:54
lots of memories from that era that had sort of been buried away from me of like how this non-binariness and this
1:00
transist has always been the most comfortable and truest version of me
1:06
[Music] hey y'all going it's Bonnie Violet
1:14
um and you are on the trans Spirit podcast and I just wanted to take a moment to say
1:20
um it's National Trans Awareness Month November 2022 and I'm currently working
1:26
on creating a new uh trans Spirit Series where I'll be interviewing 12 trans
1:32
folks from around the globe hopefully um to hear and capture their
1:38
um stories with spirituality and their trans identity that's trans non-binary
1:44
intersex [Music] um basically non-cis gendered folks or
1:51
folks who might be in the trans umbrella I'm kind of open to whatever but I'm
1:57
really curious to understand someone's gender outside of the CIS gender world
2:02
I'm in their experience with spirituality um so I am working on that in the
2:08
meantime I did want to continue putting out some episodes so what I'm going to do is
2:14
um be uploading some of my previous interviews with drag artists who were also trans uh talking about their
2:20
spiritual experience and other episodes or interviews that I've done that involve trans people talking about their
2:27
spirituality I hope that you enjoy this and I'll keep you posted on the next
2:33
series and uh yeah I'd love to hear from you please rate and review that helps other people find out about the podcast
2:41
um and feel free to engage with the links in the description you can support the work of a queer chaplain and trans
2:46
Spirit by supporting our patreon um just go to go to the links check things out
2:52
I'm not gonna believe her list any longer enjoy the podcast love you and uh
2:59
I see you I feel you I'm so glad that you're in the world with me my trans
3:04
siblings [Music] Paulie Amber Ross is an undead housewife
3:13
living her best afterlife dissecting the patriarchy one Slaughter at a time and
3:18
Peter Pan sexual is a zombie man-child working to unlearn toxic masculinity
3:23
while while falling apart at the seams both are alter egos of trans non-binary
3:31
queer performance artist Chris Steele that have been haunting queer spaces
3:36
with politically subversive thematically irreverent and physically explosive explorations of drag as theater so
3:44
tonight we have polyamoras um yes let me switch this real quick
3:51
there's a better view for being here thank you for having me
3:58
it's an honor I guess I gotta get on screen there a little better and it's and it's reversed too it's not
4:04
mirrored so I'm constantly like nope wrong side that's that's it this side okay we'll figure it out right go
4:09
opposite got it it takes a minute uh hi Amy Amy says she's excited to uh be
4:15
celebrating trans art trans Arts fantastic well um I like to I like to hide mug
4:24
Polly do you know mug Polly I don't know this boy thank you I figured that was an
4:30
inside is that what's mug Polly face
4:35
she's just complimenting my my beat I that totally makes sense my signature
4:41
weird half and half that I do no it looks great it does look great um a little slow sometimes
4:49
um so I like to just kind of go right into the conversation um uh and I like to start when we were
4:55
younger you know a lot of what I'm trying to do is get an understanding of somebody's experience with with transness and drag and then also
5:03
spirituality throughout the lifetime so um so let's start with little Chris do
5:09
you want to tell us a little bit about what it was like for you growing up sure
5:14
um I have always been a person who exists most comfortably sort of in an
5:21
androgynous non-binary space um and that's something that I think from a very young age should have been
5:29
very obvious to anybody around me um I've always been like a Storyteller and a performer and an artist
5:35
um when I was really little I would always like craft performances for my entire family to watch
5:41
um at hostage point because you can't not watch the children but the entire Wizard of Oz memorized
5:48
when I was six and would perform it as a one-person show um watch out Judy Garland and so I think
5:56
that that's sort of like as I've come to terms more and more with my trans identity I've uncovered like
6:03
lots of memories from that era that had sort of been buried away from me of like how this non-binariness and this
6:09
transness has always been the most comfortable and truest version of me um I was raised Mormon which is a very
6:16
specific uh religion of specifically American religion too so there's a lot
6:22
of layers to it um and has very rigid gender norms and
6:27
expectations um and so a lot of that early knowledge of myself I think just began to be
6:33
really buried from me as I was sort of growing up trying to uh playing the drag
6:39
of being a boy for so long and doing my damnedest and as a really good performer like I I can convince myself of almost
6:45
anything for quite a while um and so that was definitely an early
6:52
part of my journey is trying to reconcile sort of like my family's um
6:57
and my larger families because Mormon families are very connected and very big emotional and spiritual beliefs
7:04
alongside things that didn't quite feel like I fit into that realm
7:09
um and art was really a way for me to be able to Express the parts of myself that weren't
7:15
sanitized and I couldn't fit in that in that Mormon space because it was exploring any version of me so I was
7:22
always writing or singing or performing in shows and that was a sort of an
7:28
acceptable way to do it because the Mormons are also a very artistic culture and they appreciate and support the Arts
7:33
so in that way I was found like a a secret little cheat code bypass to be able to explore some of these parts of
7:40
myself but I didn't quite have the language to articulate or it didn't quite feel safe enough or comfortable to articulate and did you um was there a
7:48
time that you enjoyed like Mormonism or being part of the Mormon community
7:53
I think um it's difficult uh I think there's a lot of
7:59
harm that gets experienced under colonially patriarchal religions and I
8:04
mean Mormonism is like an actively colonizing religion in their practice
8:09
um but there are definitely parts of like growing up in a religious family that
8:16
like where Mormonism is deeply rooted in family values so like being able to have family time and like spending a lot of
8:23
close time with a lot of the women in my family I think is it is a major influence on me now as an adult I was
8:31
very close with both of my grandmothers I was very very close with my mom um and
8:38
so those sorts of like early memories and connective moments I do think are really important and are things that I
8:43
return to now as an adult yeah that was something I always I grew up in Idaho
8:49
where it's mostly Mormon and but I was non-mormon but one of the things that it
8:55
that I witnessed was is that there were there were large families and everyone was super tight-knit and all that in my
9:01
area they had all the money they had all the just I don't know they just had a lot going on and uh but that was one
9:08
thing that was kind of great about it is that there was kind of like this cohesion at least from the outside it
9:13
looked it looked kind of nice I guess um the one I think along with any organized religion right there's going
9:20
to be like the intent of the individual which like is your personal spiritual practice and like moments of that from
9:25
the Mormon religion there are things of like my personal process that I've carried forward from that like there is
9:31
a very like regimented step to like apology and repentance in the Mormon religion that isn't just about
9:38
making a deal or admitting it's like you have to like the extra step is like you have to go out of your way to fix the
9:43
harm you caused and so that like that sort of sense of reparation has always been something that's been very um
9:49
deeply instilled in me and I do think it's something that uh is really useful and that I wish more people learned is
9:55
that like it's not just about feeling bad it's that like feeling bad is actually a step on the way to learning
10:00
something and then fixing the problems that you caused so that you can move forward yeah more of like making amends
10:07
rather than just saying sorry about that or like I already feel bad about it why
10:12
don't you forgive me because you haven't fixed it yet but like yes you feel bad and that motivates you to fix it
10:20
exactly did you and so was drag something that you were interested in
10:25
Fairly young to or did that come later on I mean I didn't even know drag existed I had very little reference with
10:32
queerness I had very like the Mormon Church rather than other church does a dress like sometimes you have same sex
10:37
attraction ignore it forever it's normal and that's like I think a little uh more
10:43
difficult to overcome than religions that like directly say no it doesn't happen or it's wrong because at least
10:48
you can be like from within that like that's very vague but to address it I think that took me a lot longer her to
10:54
be able to overcome that um negative messaging to be able to be like no but if it does happen then it's
11:00
something that just is a part of me and something that I should embrace but that said like I have been lip syncing to
11:07
songs as a performer and as an actor since I was a child and like I have very early memories of that like lip syncing
11:14
to the cores and shedaisy in my parents room when no one was around in like my dad's oversized shirt as a dress and
11:21
like a towel for hair so like if anyone had ever told me you can take culture
11:28
process it through a queer lens and use lip syncing and physical movement as a as a
11:33
career I would have been on that track so much earlier
11:39
in a lot of ways yeah yeah and um when I guess when did
11:44
uh your it sounded like your sexualities was maybe something that was not quite
11:50
jiving with um Mormonism and all that when did that sort of kind of come to uh
11:56
ahead for you I guess as a transqueer person I've had like I
12:01
would like they feel like concurrent but different Journeys so like my gender I think is a thing that I just had to
12:07
reconcile a lot later because of how much inundation there is of a binary gender system in Mormonism but like I
12:14
knew I was queer and I used to say gay when I felt differently about myself but I knew I was Queer as soon as I started
12:21
having crushes on people um because there were like boys that I was
12:26
attracted to and I knew that that was supposed to be wrong but also just
12:31
something that was happening and was a part of me and was something I felt a
12:36
lot of Anguish over for a long time um but more than that in regards to my
12:43
gender Journey like as a young person I never fit him with boys or girls I fit
12:49
more in with girls than I understood I think feminists a little bit more inherently in the rules there made more
12:55
sense to me but I always most of my life upbringing until I found a Trans Community here in San Francisco I just
13:01
felt like I was missing a piece of a social handbook that everybody else had and I couldn't fit in and it weighed
13:08
very heavy on me for a lot of my life yeah I was always doing jump rope and
13:14
tetherball with the girls yes right yeah I was always the one
13:21
making like weird imaginary games or like inventing games on the playground where we had to like bring like there
13:27
was one game that we played it was like a complex form of tag where to like unlock someone from the place after they
13:33
got tagged you had to have like a jeweled Bobby so we all started like asking all of our moms for jeweled bobby
13:39
pins to school in elementary school oh fun well I remember playing kiss tag
13:45
when I was like in grade school and we were so young too would we like run and catch the other person and then we were
13:50
too scared to actually kiss them so it was like so then you would just stop yeah
13:56
yeah um and so so so you what at what age were you when that started to clash
14:03
um I would say probably I mean I'm I started school early and so I was a
14:09
little younger than most people around me but coming around hi Elizabeth uh coming around like
14:15
Middle School I started to have feelings of attraction to diverse genders
14:21
um and like the more I spent time with people the more I realized that yeah I definitely have crushes on boys and I
14:27
never really like thankfully we didn't have like really a locker room set up I didn't go through
14:33
that trauma that a lot of young queer and trans people have to go through um
14:39
yeah but I but I do yeah it's it's so wild I didn't I didn't recognize it's you know
14:46
it's like a lot of that stuff I didn't recognize it in the time but now I can look back and just be like oh wow like
14:53
that has been there this whole time totally and I rationalized it a lot like I was like I just want a really close
14:59
guy friend and people would be like you have you have close guy friends and I'd be like no but different you know the best best
15:06
guy friend like someone that's just like it's just awesome we do a lot of things together all the time and we're really
15:11
intimate oh right right hi James thanks for joining us tonight
15:17
uh James sends love from Toronto um James has a great podcast called This
15:22
Little Light of Mine but because it's really great it's a little segue there
15:27
um so when did drag come in for you Jack didn't come in until after
15:33
performance so I've been a trained and professional theater artist for over a decade
15:39
um and I started theater very young and I think that was my earliest form of drag and I like have always been like I
15:46
was trained in Shakespeare very early and I was always more drawn to the women's roles in Shakespeare but didn't
15:52
really have a way to be able to discuss or articulate that to teachers so I would just enjoy those parts of the text
15:58
and so I think a lot of theater first gave me my first Glimpse at like what performance was
16:05
but it took a long time for me to get to drag I think because of so much internalized transphobia and queerphobia
16:12
I mean even all through college I was a gay guy I was just like a different gay
16:18
guy I was like a quirky gay guy like I was trying very hard to fit in and I had people in my life that were because of
16:24
where I was um in college in Oklahoma spouting some pretty like queer and transphobic rhetoric of like well if people could
16:31
just be normal then we'd already have rights uh which we all know is a lie right not true the only rights that we
16:37
have come from loud activists and sex workers who broke the binary and were people of color and were trans so I hope
16:44
those people have found their way in the journey to a little bit more Enlightenment but um I hope it's coming to San Francisco was
16:51
really what like sparked drag for me because I finally encountered a local trans community and
16:59
I also encountered like a local drag community and that was not anything I'd ever experienced anywhere I'd lived and
17:05
where did you um grow up I was born in Utah
17:11
um that's a good question from Amy I want to answer that in a second I was born in Provo Utah
17:16
um because my parents met at BYU and then we moved to California when they
17:21
graduated and I was young and then I was raised in a pretty conservative suburb in Southern California and then I went
17:27
to school at Pepperdine University and then I transferred to the University of Oklahoma and then I moved out here oh
17:33
wow that's the Jer that's quite the journey yeah I was noticing Amy does have a good question um hello Marcus in Chicago as well
17:41
um so Amy asked how did you connect to God in those dark moments where you felt
17:46
it didn't match up with your religion yeah I've always had like a very
17:53
uh personal spiritual relationship with sort of something bigger and I don't
17:58
necessarily know that it always related to uh the idea of God that Mormonism had
18:05
but like I do feel like there is something larger in all of us that we
18:10
connect to and so like prayer or like maybe self-meditation
18:15
because it really wasn't structured like as as a self-proclaimed like witch I
18:21
definitely practice more chaos magic than ritual and a lot of my spirituality manifests in like
18:27
in allowing fluidity like I do with my gender and allowing fluidity in my spiritual practice and moments of need
18:33
and like trusting my intuition which has always guided me right so I had a lot of like
18:38
battling depression in college I would go behind there was a very beautiful Chapel at the purple down campus
18:44
um and it has this giant stained glass window and it overlooks the entire Santa Monica pier in the distance and so I
18:51
would go and lay there on the bench and cry and have conversations with myself
18:56
and my idea of whatever God is for a while just processing things
19:02
um and that was strong therapy for me to be able to vent and to process like why why do I feel so different and I think
19:09
that was a lot of it for a long time was I just have always felt very very different
19:15
than people and it was very difficult living in a system for a long time that didn't allow difference
19:21
all right so there was this element of like yeah maybe I don't fit in the Mormon religion but that doesn't mean
19:27
there's not this God or this this thing that's in my life right right well and I
19:33
I think too like an element of Mormonism that stuck with me and that I that I enjoy is the element of family history
19:41
and cultural history there's a lot of like tracing of like they do extensive records way back of
19:49
like where your family comes from and so for me like I've always been a research oriented and pretty scientifically
19:54
minded person and that comes into my magic and my spirituality as well because I really like some of the
20:01
earliest things that I did were Google searches about queerness and about
20:06
studies of queerness and trying to find little windows for myself that could help to get those intuitions that I
20:13
already was having anchor um and to help me find that sort of like
20:18
practice of taking in the real world around me and
20:23
and trying to bring the sort of spiritual intuition that I have close to that world right because I do think
20:30
there are things that are like real and tangible and that having a practice for me a spirituality that aligns and helps
20:37
support those tangible things helps me exist yeah yeah yeah it's so powerful too it's
20:42
it yeah it's really powerful and I know for me it sounded like too it's like I struggled to like figure that out on my
20:49
own it was like once I could kind of see it or hear about it in other people I could be like oh yeah that's me kind of
20:56
but not quite and you know but I could take a little something and then kind of lean into it to to get a little closer
21:02
you know to where I am today yeah I could even say that that kind of a lands of Mormonism too because they do believe
21:07
that there's like they call it the Holy Ghost but really it's like I see it as like the voice of your intuition which
21:14
if we look at epigenetics it's like Guided by your ancestors and and like genuinely like Guided by the historical
21:21
traumas and knowledge that you're passed on through this beautiful system of our DNA like that does speak to us in very
21:28
Primal visceral ways and so it's really interesting that even in this very
21:33
regimented religion there is this element of like trusting that individuality and that
21:39
voice and I think I just took that and ran with it farther than they may have expected me to right right yeah well and
21:47
it's I don't you know that was something that I didn't necessarily I don't think I've gotten and I've still kind of struggled with religion is this idea of
21:53
like there it kind of feels like there's this like denial that has to happen like like that you're not allowed to like
22:00
well one you can't trust yourself because you're sinful or you're like whatever and that's something that I've
22:07
really been trying to embrace because I lived a lot of my life not not trusting myself and that didn't get me that
22:13
didn't get me anywhere well you know yeah I agree I feel like a lot of the
22:19
times that I in one there's a difference between like discomfort and shame
22:24
and I actually love discomfort I love times when I'm uncomfortable because it's the only way that we can grow I had
22:30
a really amazing like I have a lot for a Church of Christ school I had a lot of really amazing Progressive professors at
22:36
Pepperdine um our Bible Professor specifically was looking at the Bible just as a as a text
22:43
that was a history of a community and was like giving us documentation
22:48
specifically like took time in class at this church of Christ College to mention that translations of the Bible have
22:56
changed every single time and that queerness is not necessarily something that's truly referenced in original
23:02
Source material of the Bible in a negative way so I deeply appreciate him giving
23:07
whoever other than me young queer people in that class that window psychology Professor two at that school
23:14
um skipped through half a lecture one day to make sure he could get to the point where he's like we used to think that gender was like a binary in the
23:21
brain but we've now realized that all of the shapes that we used to call male and female brains are actually a hodgepodge
23:27
in everyone's brain and so everybody has different elements of feminists and maskness in them
23:33
um I bless him for taking the skipping the lecture to get to that part to speak to
23:39
this little queer kid well in a lot of that no go for it I would say a lot of the
23:45
challenge for me though is I think that a lot of that stuff does exist within the text and those sorts of things but
23:52
when people have spoke about it like no one ever said that that existed in that you know what I mean like I didn't know
23:59
there because nobody like I didn't know there were people of color I didn't know there were like you know trans people I
24:05
didn't know like that was stuff that it's all in there you know it's all in a lot of the teachings but people didn't
24:11
use those words and and and so and I kind of felt that way too I grew up not seeing people like myself so it wasn't
24:16
never like you can't be you it was more of just like I don't know where I am
24:23
right well and like especially in the Mormon Church which like as a uniquely American religion is
24:29
also very white and very white guided um and anchored and like
24:34
like we were talking about that dragon birth that I did uh as Jesus yeah that's rooted that drag number that I do was
24:41
rooted in a lot of these paintings of white jesus that are like the same approved
24:47
hunky white Jesus benevolent paintings that are hung in every Mormon church everywhere and it's
24:53
just not accurate so I feel like there's a like it's fascinating the amount of
25:00
double think in a religion that is so curious about tracing our personal
25:05
histories but them won't expand that to a larger sense of like a holistic
25:12
history of the world and looking at like especially a religion that was so persecuted in its creation can't like
25:19
holistically view that kind of persecution and Trauma um that was just interesting
25:25
for me to reconcile as I tried to unlearn some of the toxicity of whiteness from my youth right right and
25:32
um so has spirit and you mentioned a little bit about that um number about kind of being Jesus in your number has
25:39
how is spirituality played in your drag personas because you have multiple
25:45
personas how is spirituality played a role in what if at all um so drag for me and before drag
25:52
theater have always felt the closest I felt to any idea of what God was
25:58
um and I think it's partly because there's this like interesting idea and
26:04
Mormonism of like the past and the present and the future sort of like coalescing into moments and those
26:09
moments being epiphanies um and like that's something that feels very potent
26:15
to me um and and Theater does that like the most
26:21
joyous moments that I felt free as like a human studying The Human Experience which I think a lot of religion does at
26:27
its like coolest moments um trying to make sense of The Human Experience and the spiritual realm
26:34
theater does that um really beautifully um and kind of comes from that the more
26:40
I traced back the roots of like performance and performance art and drag and theater like comes from these like
26:46
a lot of similar places that religion does like telling stories that matter to us as a community and shaping those
26:52
stories into personal ritual practice and so that's what drag is for me drag for me every time I go on stage is um a
26:59
communion with an audience where we're like sharing an intangible thing because
27:04
you can't really articulate what that electric spark is between people I I can like put scientific words to the like
27:11
sensing of electromagnetic frequencies that you can't do through a screen and like eventually like the inherent
27:17
strangeness of being in the presence of other humans and sensing breath and all the micro Expressions but but there is
27:23
an electricity that comes with live performance um that is always felt spiritual to me
27:28
and my drag numbers are often shaped by the idea that each drag number I do is a ritual and it's usually addressing some
27:35
kind of harm that I've either either felt or that I've seen and trying to
27:41
find ways like I say to like ritually exercise that harm from the world through performance yeah yeah and
27:48
communion you know it's like communion um I never did communion in church and stuff but I've had opportunities to do
27:54
it later on in life and kind of like what you said the thing about for me it's like about Community it's the fact that you are all having a shared
28:02
experience right you might be coming at it at different ways you might not understand it the same way but it's the
28:08
fact that you're all kind of there like I feel like yeah it is a very powerful thing it's a lot of why I wanted to do
28:14
this um I started this before I had ever even done drag before and I'd always saw like
28:21
drag artists as spiritual as our spiritual leaders as queer folks you know they they lifted our Spirits they
28:28
raised money to take care of us they've they've taught us so much and they've healed Us in so many ways and I'm like
28:35
that's spiritual like that's what that's what a pastor should do that's what a church you know does yeah at its
28:42
core like I think drag is community building and Community activism and I think in its best moments organized
28:48
religion does that too um and I also think that like drag artists can perpetuate harm like there's
28:55
a lot of ego that people get caught up in in Drag and I don't necessarily think that that's always
29:00
um conducive to the beauteous work that we're kind of called to do as artists
29:06
that intangible thing that we're like yeah I mean drag and theater and art aren't um
29:12
aren't profitable for most people so why do we do it because we're called to it for something
29:18
exactly and I think that's something that you know like you I think that's something that drag artists might want
29:25
to really think about is the fact that they do have a power and they do have an influence and you depending on how you
29:32
how you channel that you know it could be for good or it can be really harmful
29:37
um there's a lot of drag that's personal but also because it's a communal art form and communal just means like we
29:43
come together we commune like because it is that you also have the power to
29:49
impact communities and things that you say on a stage any person who performs on a stage is on
29:55
a platform and speaking from a platform affects the culture and culture directly affects tangible like the thing I was
30:01
saying about like tangible and aligning it with the spirituality like harm happens harm is real trauma is real
30:08
um so if you're proliferating harm or if something that you're saying
30:13
in a number that you maybe didn't think was harmful and someone calls you out for it like that's actually an
30:19
act of love because it's helping you to be better in service I I wish there were ways that we could continue to make
30:27
artistic training not a Financial State caps thing yeah I
30:33
wish there were more safe places for people to fail as they're learning to become artists especially because I feel
30:39
like like health and psychological health and
30:44
remembering that you are not your art you are a beautiful holistic human even outside of your art and your art is just something you're creating that is a part
30:49
of you um yeah would help us all to be able to maybe overcome some of the internalized
30:55
bullying that comes through in queer spaces sometimes very well said and I
31:01
think nowadays it feels like even harder to up you know it's like you need to
31:08
have it all figured out and you need to do it all right and if you're not then it's like I don't know it can be really
31:14
um paralyzing at times if we're not you know willing to just still kind of like like you said just kind of up and
31:22
do something wrong try not to um but then you know you know because we can't let it stop us from from creating
31:28
no and if and if the if you're more worried about up than you are
31:33
about growing you won't be able to grow yeah um
31:39
so like everybody's gonna make really crappy mistakes it depends on do you heal the harm from that step from
31:45
Mormonism that I've carried forward that I think is really inherent in social activism do you heal the harm do you listen to who you've harmed and then can
31:52
you grow and not do it again because there's a difference between making mistakes and needing to grow and never
31:57
being exposed to things versus patterns of harm and patterns of abuse it's a different it's a different practice yeah
32:04
for sure hi April hi beautiful as well I'm gonna take like a little break we're gonna
32:09
just throw like a little video um think about a 30 second break people you can think of your people sorry
32:15
audience members if you want to think of questions feel free to put them in the comments and we'll be right back in just
32:22
a couple of seconds foreign
32:28
[Music]
32:38
[Music]
33:00
and we're back see that was quick I saw one person in the chat asking
33:06
about conversion therapy and I never went to conversion therapy but I should mention that my parents got divorced
33:13
right around the time where I was going into middle school and having a queer Awakening moments and so I don't
33:22
know how many of y'all have seen um angels in America for the term
33:27
uh is a term that that show semi-popularized but means like kind of
33:32
Mormon but not really like my core family were always pretty Jack Mormon Jack Mormon my mom is a very strong
33:39
willed strong-minded woman um and the church doesn't ask for that right so I've always been very Guided by
33:46
by my mom and and she more than anything accepted me very early I think because of her personal
33:53
life experience outside of the church and how has um you know I drag drag was
34:00
helpful for me to um come to understand my my gender identity my transness well what's your
34:07
your relationship to drag and your I guess gender identity or transness
34:13
totally drag has completely uh has really redefined my relationship
34:19
with my body as a trans person um and really helped me to learn a lot about like
34:25
my transness is inherent no matter what steps I choose to take or not to take with my body I am trans and that's
34:31
inside me and I felt that since I was a child and I don't get to I don't get to pull the luck of the draw
34:37
I mean people that really research the science know that like it doesn't end the chromosomes there are like 14 to 15
34:44
different steps before you go from chromosome to uh to sex characteristics
34:49
and they're all different there's a wide variance in the human race so if you don't already know that I encourage you
34:54
to look into that science is fascinating and it's more than we're spouted at by people that try to shut us down
35:01
and so a lot of a lot of that's helped me but also just like drag and being a physical performer drag has helped me to
35:08
come in tune with my movement and my body in ways that theater was never able to and dance through drag has helped me
35:15
to do that and burlesque especially has helped me to embrace that I'm a very sexual person and that's a
35:21
part of my spirituality as well right yeah it's my drag name is upon on the fact that I'm a polyamorous person
35:28
um and that's a part of my spirituality as well because I've always felt like uh I've always felt like a
35:34
a bit of a siphon for Humanity and for experiences because I'm very empathic and I love encountering people and being
35:41
a safe space for people to be themselves um and I do that in my relationships too so
35:47
that's been a major way that drag has helped me to really love my body and to realize that my body is what it is and
35:55
to be comfortable in whatever the heck I want to wear walking down the street at any time of day yeah to be ready to be
36:01
ready to fight to stay safe as a trans person right right right yeah um Kaylin young said ask polly have you
36:09
been able to connect with any other ex-mormon trans and or drag folks what
36:14
has that been like um some ex-mormon and some just
36:19
generally like Christian either practicing or not anymore drag folks
36:25
um I think they're like there is a sense with Mormonism like
36:30
it's not an openly supportive religion yet so there is going to be trauma and I
36:35
think that like discussing the idea of like it's a major sacrifice to leave the community that
36:42
you're raised in um and so finding queer community and finding drag are so important in those
36:48
ways I think is a thing that I've commiserated with other exmos about for how drag affects things
36:56
as you really are like when you choose to be a drag artist you're tapping into community in a
37:01
larger way than just being a queer person that goes to the bars because you're building relationships with the venue You're Building relationships with
37:08
every audience member and suddenly you're a public figure in a completely different way because people expect you
37:13
to be a steward of the space and expect whether rightly or not you to be a steward of their time in that space
37:21
there's a different level of responsibility that comes with it and that plugs you into community in a different way yeah and that that you
37:28
know talking about the fact that like all the family Dynamics and the tight-knitness like you said it's like
37:34
as soon as you kind of step out of that line then it can be like a huge like it's a huge loss because it's not like
37:40
just because you like you lost going to church it's like you lost everything because that's a big part of even the
37:46
belief that if the person isn't living in a certain way then you gotta kind of like make some space right one I'm
37:53
really lucky that I had parents who have the grace or the space
37:58
or the distance to be able to say like it's okay when I finally chose
38:03
to come out to them um and I've come out to my mom so many times now anyway it came out as gay came
38:11
out as non-binary came out as queer instead of gay it came out as polyamorous at this point it's just a
38:17
game of like what's coming next it's really amazing through all of those curves and I've been lucky enough to be
38:24
able to put my dad in Drag and to have both my parents see me perform in drag shows
38:29
um that's how it's been that's that's been an important personal Journey for me
38:36
that's that's that's magical that's really great I'm lucky and in a way luck like I inherently acknowledge there's a
38:42
lot of privilege and there's a lot of luck in that yeah how cool though
38:49
um what there was a question I was gonna have and then I forgot it oh what is
38:55
your spiritual practice like now if he's like what would you say you do
39:00
or how you identify yeah I think art for me is a lot of my spirituality I'm I
39:06
don't identify under any one type of practice like I said I'm a bit of a chaos witch and that really fits with
39:13
like being an individual who's genderqueer gender fluid non-binary I feel like all of those labels fit who I
39:20
am um and so I need different things on different days but art is always a
39:25
constant for me and it's a place where my spirituality really manifests um
39:31
because I don't go ahead yeah I was gonna say like I my
39:36
art as as the bio so carefully put is very um activist and it can be I'm a loud
39:44
political activist For Better or Worse um and it
39:50
that is a part of my spiritual practice like reducing harm and fighting for just
39:56
like a world that's more comfortable and safer and fairer for everybody is a major anchor in my spirituality so
40:02
mainly it comes in through my art and I'm like a Creator I write I write theater and that lets me
40:08
communicate these things that I think are very important um yeah what's more spiritual than creation
40:14
huh than creating right well and as trans people there's this like this beauty of our metamorphosis of like
40:22
we do have a hand in our own creation and and what is more close to to whatever the idea of God may be than
40:29
like trusting a person with that responsibility while they're here that's a big responsibility for us and we have
40:36
to navigate it and I think that's powerful and I think that that's what drag is and it's why I think drag is
40:41
inherently trans queer art form and that doesn't mean that our CIS siblings aren't able to participate you're
40:47
totally welcome to but but remember that if anybody starts saying the drag
40:52
didn't come from trans sources or excluding trans people from the art form it's our responsibility to protect the
40:59
space that they carved out for us to be able to exist yes well said well said
41:06
yeah I don't yeah I did yeah it's like Tran Like Pat like we just have so much
41:12
power like drag has so much power but I think trans people do too I and I do believe like create like I don't know I
41:19
feel like when I was younger I felt like okay I was created by God or whatever right and it's like no I am continuing
41:26
to be created and I lived a lot of my life being created by all the
41:31
that's happening to me and now like once I started Living a spiritual life I can
41:37
now be a co-creator like I I can be a part of my creation not just a product
41:42
of recruit my Creation in the sense of like that's happened to me if you will so now we're getting into this like
41:49
really interesting tricky sci-fi element of Mormonism where they believe that if you're like really really good then in
41:55
the afterlife you'll become basically like a god but I think that we have that power in our own lives every day and
42:01
that the idea of transformation um which is chord of transness which is quarter drag which is kind of core to
42:08
spirituality too yeah is always with us and we always have that power like you
42:13
can stop and abandon and break patterns and pick
42:19
up new things that serve you anytime we have that power you're right like even if you're not trans you have the power
42:25
to continually shape yourself like these cells that we are are rapidly changing we are literally not the same person
42:32
that we were before yeah the science meshing in with my
42:38
spirituality that's really freeing for me it's like time is passing always and we always have the choice to be able to step
42:44
towards a change and to sculpt our own future and to co-create ourselves
42:50
exactly one it's like there's a for me it's like I don't know what's gonna happen after I die so I mean I believe
42:57
I'm meant to like hopefully have that before I die you know to like to have that experience before I die and I never
43:03
and I think a lot of why I do the work I do is like and I I sometimes use words that just I don't know they're just
43:10
words like like I would say like what's the use in getting to Heaven if if everyone's not there with me you know
43:16
why would I want to go to heaven and be there by myself that was one of my biggest challenges with the religion that I was brought up in
43:22
was this idea that my the wonderful loving people in my life were going to hell unless they you know like did
43:29
something different but well and it's similar with Mormonism not in that there's a hell because I don't know that
43:35
there ever really was that kind of idea but that there's multiple levels of Heaven that you have to like do good things to get to the one with your
43:41
family I I don't I wish deeply that everyone could not be shamed
43:48
for being alive and for having living impulses and for being a conflicting bundle of neurons I I think that being
43:55
human is inherently a fluid experience um and that as a society we're moving
44:01
closer to embracing that truth but I don't know that we've hit it yet um and we we need that
44:08
we need that kind of permission to be able to grow and to change and to not be
44:15
shamed for this gift that we didn't choose and it's part of why I'm such a vocal activist for like give homeless
44:22
people free housing like these these arbitrary things that we make up that make it harder for people to exist when
44:28
nobody asked to be here as far as We Know I I think it doesn't make sense to me
44:34
like everybody should have the basics that they need to be able to survive and then what they make of their life from
44:40
there can really be up to them so nobody should be ashamed or penalized
44:45
for existing right right yeah and I think that's the part of like what our responsibility is in giving this gift or
44:52
being in this way is that we have to like transform that idea to other people that why do things have to be the way
44:58
they are like do they have to be the way they are can you stretch yourself because it feels like so many people get
45:05
I don't know I just don't know how to not be who I am and I love who I am no matter how difficult it is sometimes to
45:12
feel like I don't know where to fit like I wouldn't change who I like I just wouldn't change anything about myself
45:18
right well in a way drag gives us the practice of evolving because you have to
45:23
step onto a stage and live in a way that you like like probably as many parts of me but
45:29
that's not how I walk down the street every day like it's it's it's an performance is heightening it's like
45:37
it's and I think a lot of what religious storytelling is in a similar way to theater storytelling is it takes things
45:43
and then expands them to a massive size so that we can look at them more broadly and we can examine them
45:50
with like the emotional impact as well as the historical impact
45:56
um so I think that like drag does that it gives us the chance to practice change but it also gives us the chance to
46:02
practice like celebrating the parts of ourselves that are our constants and
46:08
celebrating the parts of ourselves that are often shamed yes and King Lotus boy says I agree on
46:16
one end but also part of my beliefs are in past lives in that vein we do choose
46:22
to be reborn into our current lives because we need to continue healing something ancestrally or to carry out a
46:29
higher purpose I love the idea of that I don't know that I'm personally there yet but I love
46:36
the idea of that and I like the idea that like I do think we should always be looking
46:42
to to heal to heal pain and to keep moving forward
46:47
and to progress happens and if you try to fight progress
46:54
Things Fall Apart right everything is always on the on the edge of growth or entropy right and I I think the sacred
47:01
aspect of that is even that um wrong that resistance is part of part
47:08
of what it takes to become what we're becoming you know yeah
47:15
King Lotus boy says agreed always healing progress won't come without it
47:20
and I like the idea of angering ourselves to growth like I think that's a beautiful thing as
47:27
Humanity as we can and everybody has different capacities I'm a disabled performer so there are things that I can
47:33
do and there are things that I can't do um and within my limitations like I want to keep growing it's part of why I love art
47:39
because like you can't ever be done like I'm never going to reach the part with theater or drag where I'm like that was it that was
47:46
the perfect performance that's impossible it's impossible and if it ever happens I think I genuinely will go
47:51
poof and disappear okay that's something I like took from one of my favorite
47:56
favorite teachers from college um Dr Judith Pender said like you can't ever be perfect and
48:03
if you are you go proof and disappear and that's why we keep chasing art and theater so I agree like I think the anchoring
48:09
ourselves to growth through healing I think is something that feels
48:17
anchored in in humanity like we're as a species
48:22
we have this adaptation gift that's both our biggest strength and our biggest uh
48:29
harm yeah Stacy Says Ever Changing and I was curious so what's a what's
48:38
something you're looking forward to
48:44
I have lots of things that I look forward to a lot of them are the art that I want
48:51
to continue to make um right now I'm taking time I think the pandemic has redefined my
48:56
relationship with my body and that I am a pretty gender non-conforming person in public and that's exhausting on a daily
49:04
basis and so being home with just the people who love me and who see me as me
49:10
and who never judge me I'm wearing what I want to wear and being with my body as it is uh fully changed a lot for me and
49:18
so going back into the world I'm like just enjoying and looking forward to like bringing that back into the world
49:24
and bringing this new sense into confidence that I've found through this next layer of metamorphosis
49:30
um and I'm looking forward to like I just enrolled in more learning College
49:38
was kind of traumatic for me in a lot of ways I think college can be traumatic for a lot of people because the actual education system is not uh fair for
49:45
people that are not a certain type of brain um which I am not
49:50
and so I just re-enrolled on my own terms for some fashion classes to be able to continue to learn skills that I
49:56
have wanted since I was a kid but that I never felt like it was realistic right
50:02
for Chase um so giving that that giving myself permission to find fruition for those things that I've
50:08
always loved is something I'm looking forward to yeah congratulations that's awesome thanks and you just started a
50:16
all trans show do you want to talk about that and kind of like why why in office what's important about that yes
50:23
um well I cannot say that it's the first all trans drag show even in this city because this history of the city is Rife
50:29
with beautiful trans drag artists but my dear friend lolude and I started an all
50:35
trans track show called in transit at in the Castro which I think a lot of people have historically experienced some
50:41
transphobic harm from people that um mainly I've experienced it from the
50:47
hands of CIS gay men who just have some growing and learning to do and part of that learning is exposure so I'm really
50:52
proud to be in this queer Center in San Francisco bringing trans drag and
50:59
expanding the definition of what drag can look like and not necessarily just fitting one
51:06
uh pretty or one passing standard of drag embracing like very gender diverse
51:11
trans performers um yeah so that's coming up monthly at the edge and if you are in San Francisco
51:18
and want to come see it you can find it probably on my page or through uh
51:23
looking at in transit on Facebook awesome and we'll we'll include some of
51:28
that information in the description for folks who are just coming across that way um through the audio who can't see the
51:34
flyer that was up um and then um you know one of the things like um well I mean once I saw
51:41
your first performance where you were Jesus of the stud I was just like wow and you won the pageant but one of the
51:47
things like during shelter in place is you were like producing so many videos
51:53
and uh performances that I was just blown away you're talking about lip syncing I guess you started so young
51:59
because you like you're amazing but um I wanted to really encourage people
52:04
to like to to find your work because you'll see like it's just such a variety
52:10
to like political kind of humor stuff to like like
52:15
um emo kind of like I don't you just have such a range that's been really uh
52:22
it's been really fun for me to for me to watch at least so what's the best way
52:27
for people to get connected to your work and support your work yeah so if you want to see a lot of my work a lot of it
52:34
is on my Instagram page which is where I have I pretty much post most of my content or
52:39
at least a preview of all of my content there which is at Paulie and Peter but if you want to support my work I just
52:46
started a patreon which is patreon.com
52:54
and it's a way of me beginning to acknowledge and try and find the way to keep art
53:00
sustainable as artists we take on a lot of financial liability and the expectation of artists to continue to
53:07
grow and change under systems that don't socially fund us are hard
53:13
and I like eating I do I enjoy having food and I enjoy being able to to
53:19
continue to grow and create new things but at a certain point it it can't be sustainable unless I'm
53:24
unless I'm getting help from the community to be able to bring that as a community service because I believe art
53:30
is that I believe art is a community service that betters us all agreed and for folks who might not be aware of what
53:36
patreon is is it's a way that you could contribute monthly to support somebody's work so and it can be as little as like
53:43
uh you know two or three dollars up to like 50 or 100 or a thousand
53:49
um and that usually there's different perks um uh for some folks I know for me I'm
53:54
pretty new so like and for me it's just like I just want to make all my stuff super accessible so I'm like so if
53:59
you're supporting me you're supporting that and hopefully more people will get their eyes on it or whatever
54:05
um but please do if you're able find a way to support um Polly's work because it is amazing I
54:12
love you Lotus boy you're remarkable too Lotus boy is amazing Lotus boy is going to be on the show on the 14th as well so
54:19
I'm excited to have Lotus on um so we're right at our end of time
54:25
um did you have anything that you would like to share or before we go
54:30
um I just want to say to all the trans people listening that you are loved and
54:36
that you are you and you're important um and I don't think we hear that enough especially right now during a time that
54:41
is so um difficult logistically um and legally for so many trans people
54:46
just to be able to exist safely um and I want to say to every queer person that like queerness is a journey and how
54:53
beautiful it is that we're embarking on that journey and continuing to like grow and learn so like remember that you are
55:01
a fluid experience and that you are ever changing and that you have permission to hold on to the things that you love and
55:07
that serve you and support you and to release things yeah that no longer do and that they
55:15
[Music] great episode that was do take some time
55:20
and rate and review this episode or the podcast in general also please do reach
55:26
out and let me know what you're thinking about the podcast what would you like to hear um guests you'd like to see on there are
55:32
you interested in being involved in some way um please do reach out you know right now this is a one-person show and I kind
55:40
of do this on my own but I am looking to really try to increase production and would love to bring on folks who are
55:46
looking to to be editors or co-hosts or guests or in other way involved sponsors
55:55
in helping to make this podcast just so much more uh sparkly and hopefully
56:03
accessible to more and more people please do like seriously like reach out
56:10
if you're interested you're feeling drawn to it this work can feel really isolating
56:15
alone sometimes and just have having one other person with me in some form or fashion really means a lot so thank you
56:23
so much for listening to the podcast and supporting the work of a queer chaplain take care and I love you all so dearly
56:31
bye bye [Music]



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